Seriously Curious: The Future of Electric Vehicle Adoption

CHRIS: Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to Seriously Curious, a podcast about all things UX for business strategy and design. I’m Chris Rockwell, president and founder of Lextant. And today, I’m super excited that we’ll be talking about the future of mobility, and specifically what we can do to accelerate the adoption of EV platforms. So I’m really excited to be joined by industry experts, Kristin Kolodge, VP of Benchmarking and Mobility Development at J.D. Power, and Zoey Ryu, director of research and strategy for Future Mobility at Lextant. Guys, thanks for being here. Really appreciate it.

KRISTIN AND ZOEY: Thank you.

CHRIS: So today we’re going to get a chance to hear more about some of what we’re learning about customer perceptions around electric vehicles and, how what these first moments of truth in the journey are like and how we can refine and hone designs to, achieve better success in the market. Kristin, you’ve been driving innovation in the automotive industry for many years now. We’ve known each other for a long time, and you’re now heading up the leading source of data on perceived, automotive quality and experience in the industry. So tell us a little bit about how you got here and, and sort of some of the things that J.D. power is offering.

KRISTIN: Absolutely. So, a pleasure to be here. Thank you so much for the invitation. And congratulations on the podcast. So, at J.D. power, I lead a team that’s responsible for automotive benchmarking. So what does that mean? We’re looking at everything really from that,you know, customer ownership journey for a vehicle. And that’s everything from, you know, those first few months of ownership all the way through, you know, three years of ownership as well. But that voice of the customer is so important to be able to have that type of measurement of, you know, is industry developing, you know, are they developing and turning out products that are meeting the needs of the customer? And how do we know that? Well, we have to listen to them. So, so critical, so important. So some of the studies that we produce are like an initial quality study that looks at the types of problems that customers have at 90 days of ownership. We also, you know, ask those same consumers, the flip side of the equation, because it’s not just about the problems, it’s also about, you know, tell us what you’re really happy about. So we have an appeal study that looks at that level of passion and satisfaction. And then again, still those same consumers, we’re asking them about the new technology on their vehicles. So thinking about new technology as it’s first coming to market, is it hitting the spot or not. So we ask various types of user experience questions to really help us to understand, you know, is this technology going to be one, one to watch, one for others to adopt and incorporate going forward, or is it missing the mark? And we need to be able to make some very noticeable changes.

CHRIS: Yeah. And you’ve been, at this not only, J.D. power on the measurement side, but actually the development side at Chrysler for many years. That’s where we initially met. And, your team was largely responsible for the Uconnect platform, which was a huge success. Tell us a little bit about that.

KRISTIN: Yeah. I mean, that’s exactly where you and I met and really formed this great connection. But, I mean, I can say with all confidence that, you know, partnering with Lextant while I was at Chrysler, leading that human machine interface, department was so critical. And, you know, the crucial step to allow us to, perform user testing while we were in development. I mean, it was a very iterative process, but one of those that, you know, essentially gave us the confidence that what we were going to go to launch with was going to meet and exceed the customer expectations. So when we launched, we didn’t have any surprises. And when we launched, we also were, you know, that Uconnect system, as well as other aspects of the, you know, interaction on the vehicle itself, were benchmark and remained benchmark for a very long time within industry. I mean, it was kind of nice to be to be chased, if you will. But but I mean, it did not happen by accident. It very much happened, you know, by having that very, disciplined approach to focus on, you know, really creating a superior user experience.

CHRIS: Yeah, tons of awards. That was an exciting time to be developing some of this new modern infotainment type of technology. You mentioned all of the sort of rapid innovation that’s happening right now, and sort of the future of autonomous electric connected and smart and electrified experiences. Zoey, you’re having a ton of opportunities to study new users. And with all these new design systems, whether they be connected or in vehicles. Tell us a little bit about how you got here and sort of what you love about this work you’re doing in feature mobility.

ZOEY: Sure thing. Well, first of all, thanks for having me, Chris. My background is in psychology and human factors engineering, and ever since my time at Virginia Tech, I’ve always been interested in the cognitive workload of things. So whether how it’s expanded maximize and also minimize and compromise based on how you change the environment and how you change the stimuli you’re giving a person. In addition to that, I was also interested in the decision making process. So that comes down to my decision making in a very intense moment to just like a long term decision making process. So it came as no surprise that my work, mainly in Virginia Tech, was around pipelines of nuclear control room experience, which was wild to be actually seeing in person. But now I’m working a lot in the driver experience, as you mentioned, and it’s very similar experience I’m noticing between becoming a person who’s behind the monitor and being able to drive the experience. So I’m pushing that a little bit further into the mobility space. It’s really fascinating that this piece is innovating so much and booming so much with all these new technology coming in, because for a while, I’ve always thought that innovation was more difficult in the space of mobility because people’s user needs, the basic user needs for mobility has been met for a long time, which is going from A to B. However, and now the manufacturers pushing the bar a little bit more and redesigning. How are people going to get from A to B? And I’m fascinated. That’s where these autonomous features, connected features and electrification all comes to light. And I’m really excited to talk and dive into the EV adoption of things.

CHRIS: Yeah, I’d love to see the innovation of mobility to go to the sort of the life level. I love that the fact that we’re focusing now beyond the cockpit to really how does mobility impact all aspects of your life? Mobility. You know, I think one of the things we’ve learned with our research with consumers is it’s fundamentally about freedom and empowerment. First of all, like, can I move when I want to move anywhere powered to do it? and, I think we’ve made some advances in that, that area, with autonomous and with connected types of experiences. but I still think there’s a lot of opportunity areas where, maybe we don’t entirely understand the value proposition to consumers, and we’re kind of technologies looking, for a solution. So, you know, let’s let’s talk about that. and specifically with EVs. I mean, Kristin, are we seeing the type of, demand that we expected, for EVs? And, you know, what’s happening in terms of consumer desire for these kinds of new platforms?

KRISTIN: Yeah. So from our standpoint, the data that we’re seeing, yes. Where we we are on track, I mean, we actually are seeing some really strong numbers, some really strong measurements and KPIs with respect to where we’re performing and certainly where the industry is heading. So let’s break it down to a couple of different factors. So when we think about, you know, those that are in the shopping funnel, those that are, you know, considering what is my next vehicle going to be right now we have 29% of consumers that say that they’re very likely to purchase a battery electric vehicle as their next vehicle. So that’s pretty exciting, especially when you consider so that that statistic was as of our measurement in October, you know, where we were in January of this year, that was at 26%. So, you know, we’re we’re definitely trending in the right direction with respect to that consideration. You know, how is that translating to actual sales here within the United States. So our numbers show that we’re at 9% of, EV retail sales here in the United States. And I know there’s lots of numbers when you talk about U.S. or global, but like our numbers are showing that we’re at 9%. So this is an all time high, which is really exciting when you think about, you know, this new type of, of powertrain option where we were a year ago was at 6.7%. So again, just within that year, we’re ticking up in that EV retail sale. I know there’s a lot of conversation out, you know, in this time period that we’re in right now with respect to, you know, are we you know, is are things slowing down here? Is the industry pulling back? I mean, part of what we’re seeing is we’re just at a mismatch with respect to what the industry is producing versus, you know, where the sales are, right. We’ve got that type of, you know, supply and demand curve mismatch at this point. But but in terms of the interest level of consumers, you know, the level of experience and and even that return rate. So for those that are having a battery electric vehicle today, are they going to return. We’re seeing nine out of ten owners, you know, will return to to purchase that battery electric vehicle. So a lot of really good indicators with respect to showing that we’re we’re in a good place right now and have a good trajectory as we move forward.

CHRIS: Yeah. So, we are seeing early adopters and there’s my, you know, there’s a little bit of that shiny object, reaction from the market, I think, Zoey, based on, you know, the kind of work that you’re doing, are we seeing the sort of, your value proposition? are people and what are what are the first experiences, like with EVs?

ZOEY: I think it really depends on the people we talk to. And it has varied a lot. And with especially with early adopters kind of saturating the market today with EV ownership, a lot of them have mentioned that there are incentives out there in addition to the new technology. What is shiny and new for them? The incentives it’s provided a federal tax, state level as well as the local utility level. It really all adds up to a lot of incentive for them to purchase this car. And also in the hope that in the future will pay them back, as a long term investment. with today’s, customers going into mainstream, I think it’s really critical for them to really understand beyond that a little bit more, because now there are words out there about how inconvenient it is delivered EVs today, because infrastructure is not there. It’s not there yet. So with under mainstream seeing that, the value proposition from moving from technology, incentive focus has dropped a little bit for mainstream customers today. But I think that perspective could be switch based on what the manufacturers do in order to push the mainstream forward by educating them on what means to live in an EV, as well as the first time owning one, and what kind of things they need to prepare their home for with regards to electrifying their home to get ready with the EV.

CHRIS: Yeah. So, it’s a different experience to own electric vehicles, you know, for sure. So, Kristin, what do we find in about, the differences, say, between satisfaction with an internal combustion engine vehicle versus EVs. Are we seeing the same level, in those early scores with EVs? Are are is the promise kept, you know, in the experience or, what are you finding in the data?

KRISTIN: Yeah. So when we look at the battery electric vehicles that are on the market today. So the vehicles in this type of information that I’m talking about here would be reticent of 2023 model year vehicles. So we see, a a strong and increasing level of satisfaction with battery electric vehicles. It still is lagging in comparison to where an internal combustion engine vehicle is, just like at an aggregate level, if you will. but it’s it’s definitely trending in the right direction on that level of satisfaction. But we did have, you know, multiple electric vehicles win satisfaction awards within their segment this year. So that was, you know, certainly no, no small feat in, in right to be able to, to receive that type of, of praise and credibility from, from their owners. Now, on the flip side is we see with the battery electric vehicles that they have a high quantity of problems that their owners are experiencing. So it comes back to this level of balance of the experience. So, you know, satisfaction is is strong and improving kind of on that year over year basis. But we do see problems increasing. And the problems are not just with the powertrain, as you might suspect. Right. You can think that, you know, many of the other technology areas

or other areas of the vehicle, even when you think about infotainment or exterior. Right? How is that really different in an EV versus, you know, in an internal combustion engine? But we are seeing measurably different levels of problems across those areas. So some of this is an aspect where we see manufacturers taking a bit more of a tech forward approach with interactions in the vehicle. So whether it’s incorporating more tech forward type of features or changing up traditional interaction methods to something that might be perceived as being more tech forward, more aerodynamic, you know, less hard controls. Right? Just kind of changing that user experience model in. And that’s where we’re seeing a lot of the the problems coming in. So not with the powertrain itself, but in some of these, these other areas that the equation change, but didn’t necessarily have to.

CHRIS: Yeah. So sort of how we’re delivering the technology, not so much the technology itself. Are we delivering in a way that, is intuitive, can be learned, is easy to use. I mean, the informational challenges, considerable, owning an electric vehicle versus, owning a combustion vehicle. It’s a new area for people. So one of the things that, you know, that we’ve been seeing is, and sometimes I say that like, owning an electric vehicle is just like owning a combustion vehicle, but it has baggage, right? I need to know about batteries. I need to, you know, install a charger in my house. You know, I don’t have to install things in my house in order to make that, a combustion vehicle work for me. you know, I have to worry about, the trips I’m taking and how far I can go and whether it’s going to leave my family. You know, you stranded somewhere. So tell me a little bit about that.

ZOEY: I say it starts from understanding the customers. So in the past couple of years, actually, OEMs have come to us. Toyota. Honda is asking us what is EV consider is looking like, what are the purchase decision looking like and what’s ownership looking like. Those are the right questions that manufacturers need to be asking, and insights come up time and time again that people are definitely not ready. They’re they don’t have the knowledge to really understand, even using this powertrain, what it means to maintain a good battery longevity. So things like 80 to 20% battery life, range in order to keep the battery healthy for a while, making sure you don’t use superchargers all the time because it does put a strain on the battery, not keeping your car on an ice cold winter outside, or parking in a desert heat in Arizona. So all those things people really don’t really quite think about before purchasing an EV, and now it’s hitting really strong, especially with the mainstream market coming to, the visibility. So I think it’s really about understanding where the pain points lie and actually targeting where, those solutions can come to light, and being able to communicate with the customers in a way that it makes sense is relevant for them. So, for example, if you’re selling an SUV to a soccer mom, you wouldn’t be focusing on the performance of the EVs, but you should be focusing on maybe the storage space that you’ll be able to get in when you do adopt an EV. So actually targeting the customers, understanding the pain points, and messaging the targeted message to the right customer is probably key to increasing the value proposition for customers today.

CHRIS: Yeah.  So you mentioned you have to kind of be a battery expert almost in order to make a good decision about the vehicle. I mean, Kristin, what are these sort of knowledge gaps that we’re seeing and how do we begin to help consumers understand, you know what, how to make a good decision around their electric vehicle? I think until we can get rid of some of that ambiguity, I think it’s going to be a challenge to meet the mass market, you know.

KRISTIN: it’s a really important question. And I think that’s exactly, you know, the state that we’re in as an industry, right now, we know that the experience is going to be different than, you know, owning an EV versus owning an internal combustion engine. So we shouldn’t be labeling it as anything but. Right. We need to be clear, transparent and help these consumers through this steep learning curve because there’s a lot of different elements that come along with an electric vehicle to make that type of eyes wide open decision, if that’s right for you and your lifestyle, because we really want to set up these new vehicle owners for success, right? We want them to be lifelong, you know, considers of this type of technology. And so if we don’t have that type of transparent conversation, then that’s a risk. So when we think about, you know, you had great points with respect to the battery usage and charging and even, you know, what does that mean to, you know, set up your home for charging, you know, are you able to set up your home for charging? We know that right now. 1 in 3 battery electric vehicle owners are not able to charge at home. So what does that you know, what does that experience look like now you’re going to, you know, have more reliance on public charging. And so we know that public charging in and of itself infrastructure is not where it needs to be right now. Our our EV car park is growing at a rate four times what our infrastructure growth rate is. So we are not at parity with each other. And then, you know, even, you know, showing up at a public charging experience, 1 in 5 charging attempts fails, right? So I mean, so you’ve got like a culmination of of of variables going on here That certainly are some risk points. That being said, we know that like the dealer at this point in time is a bit of our front line with respect to helping to inform and educate. We know that, you know, just even talking about driver assistance systems and other technology, we mean, even going back to pairing your phone and using your voice recognition and all of those great technologies that we’ve been working through the user experience for 20 plus years, right? That that becomes a challenge in and of itself. But just the importance of that dealer

themselves to be able to to make that sale talk with respect to like here’s the charge port, here’s what it means. This is the type of charger you have. Here’s your extra cord here. It’s where it’s stored. Right. These these different elements like here here’s a number of a utility guy that can help install a charger in your home. If you’re able. Right. These are the elements that we need to be able to have along with the whole like teaching about, you know, the charging ranges that you’re going to have, etc.. So we have a steep learning curve right now, but we also have a great upside potential with this type of technology, which is, you know, where the the pull from industry is, is to be able to say like, hey, we’ve really got something here that’s that, you know,

can make a difference in user experience. But we’ve got to be able to again, go back to setting our these new vehicle owners up for success.

CHRIS: Yeah. Relying on on dealers to educate consumers is not success. In my in my mind. I mean we spent a lot of time you know you know not trying to design. And so you don’t need and help documentation. But it is interesting with a lot of these new technologies, we’re actually designing educational experiences in the vehicle so people can learn about it. So let’s talk about the way forward that I mean, because, you know, we’ve talked about there is promise. The market seems to be excited. It’s in the consideration set. but there is a learning curve. There’s some confusion around quality and how do we leverage the inherent, positives of EV platforms. We can put the motors in the in the wheels. We can, Zoey you mentioned changing the interior configuration. And we have much more flexibility there. Like how do we begin to really leverage what, EVs can do?

KRISTIN: I think I hold a contrarian view with respect to the, EVs being like the need to be tech forward. You know, part of part of this is, I, I’m not sure if that’s an industry push or a consumer pull, if you will. And this is the element of of where, you know, are we designing technology for technology sake or is this technology really moving the needle on that user experience for you? Is this something that’s actually going to be meaningful? And that’s where, you know, there are several instances of technology that we might talk about that in my mind, I’m thinking of why would that be an EV specific technology? Right. Really? Isn’t that something that can go be vehicle or powertrain agnostic? And so that’s where, you know, I do think where we as an industry are starting to set ourselves up to be like, you know, EVs are so tech forward, but I don’t know that it necessarily has to be. I think there are elements of connectivity that are more important for an EV experience. So I realize that’s a little bit, again, contrarian to, to what the story is.

CHRIS: Yeah, I mean, I, I think it’s really interesting. because I agree one way for us to differentiate electric vehicle experiences over combustion engines are, are to go with that perception that this is a high tech platform. It not only uses different, you know, powertrain, but, it can be more connected. It can be, you know, you can have greater productivity, you can be more autonomous. I mean, it doesn’t you can do those same things on an Ice platform, too. But, there I think there might be value in differentiating those experiences. So when you pay 25% more or you, you know, have to go through this change in and how you, you know, fuel and, and, you know, live in your mobility world, that it’s worth it because you are getting more than just, you know, a new power plant. but I agree with you that, it can look like technology searching for a solution. In fact, that’s one of the concerns I have in general is we spent a lot of time getting our clients, and manufacturers to, like, move away from technology centered design, you know, doing tech just because you can. In fact, I’m seeing that with the AI stuff now. You know, it’s like, well, we’re going to do AIs like, well, what does that mean? You know, so what’s the value proposition? Why would I why would I power this with an AI experience unless it’s adding value to your point view? So, I do think it’s interesting that, you know, is it an opportunity for us for EVs to associate the platform with a higher tech experience to sort of justify the fact that you do have to overcome some barriers? You have to change the way you think about things right now.

KRISTIN: Now I do think architecturally like that. There are some advantages to an EV that we can take advantage of. So when you think about, you know, the packaging, the battery, you don’t no longer have a drive train running through. Right? You can you can start to open up some new storage opportunities within the vehicle, different seating configurations and, opportunities there. You know, even having that front trunk or the frunk is, is it’s lovingly being, you know, known as. Right. We see that as a surprise and delight item, but yet only, 48% of battery electric vehicles on the market today actually have a frunk. But we see a high level of satisfaction with those that have a frunk that’s three cubic feet or larger. And a shout out to the F-150, where their frunk is 14 cubic feet. And like off the charts in terms of consumer satisfaction with that. So like, those are great elements to, you know, just showcase with respect to surprise and delight that an EV can have and produce. So it’s, you know, not, you know, typical technology. If you will, but it certainly is inherent within what that architecture can afford.

CHRIS: Highly experiential though, right? I mean, we can completely rethink how we’re going to design interiors. what about like serviceability or maintainability? it seems like EV should have less moving parts and can be made more modular for servicing and things like that. Are we seeing that Kristin in, in, are we seeing that benefit? Tell me about how consumers perceive serviceability or whether or not we’re delivering on that.

KRISTIN: so right now, you know, when we look at the, the cost of ownership of a vehicle. And so you were hitting on this at the top of the conversation. You know, it’s important for us to get beyond like that initial cost. And this is a little bit of where that equation and kind of that steep learning curve and kind of changing that model when we talk about EVs with consumer comes in because that sticker price itself is high. So when you can look at the total cost of ownership, which includes all of those incentives at the federal, state, utility, local level, etc., but then you start looking at the serviceability aspect, then you start looking at the residual value, or is the value of the vehicle holding up that when you look at that in comparison to another is we see EVs being, favorable in that respect. And that can be surprising to some because again, that’s, you know, initial sticker price can be shocking. And so you have to go through that a little bit of math to be able to help to prove that point out now on the service side itself. So we do see, you know, a higher problem count with EVs at this point in time. Much of that is due to difficult to use type of problems, not necessarily anything that the dealer is going to be able to fix in many cases. So just a couple for instances. So, you know, there are some manufacturers that are removing the garage door opener buttons and placing them inside the touchscreen, or removing a glove box handle and making it electronic contained within the touchscreen itself, like both of those are sending you into double digit types of problems. I mean, magnitudes of 25-30, what you know, problems per 100, what it what it would be had you had, you know, just a typical hard control. So in certain instances. Right. That’s that’s not anything the dealer is going to be able to fix, but it certainly is contributing to that experience. But on the serviceability side, I mean, this is this is an important part of the conversation because we need to help convince the consumers, that the vehicles are going to be reliable, that they are going to be durable. I mean, that’s the top consideration for, you know, the top importance factor. I should say it that way for consumers is perceived quality and reliability of the vehicle. So how can we demonstrate that in a meaningful way to them that the vehicle is going to provide them with a competent experience over its lifetime?

CHRIS: Yeah. I mean, it’s, you know, maybe the second largest purchase decision you’ll make, you know, in your life. So you want to make sure it doesn’t leave you stranded somewhere or, you know, so I so let’s talk a little bit more about it. I’d like, by the way, your comments on, so removing some of the physical controls in the digital space that’s reflected in our research with consumers as well. I mean, it’s just we have to do that in a way that we understand where the value proposition lives, because some of those controls you can make, you know, virtual controls and some you can’t. And it’s just a matter of really understanding from consumer perspective where you have the leverage to do that. Zoey, you mentioned, you know, some of these barriers we can turn into benefits like, route planning. You know, it’s like, well, maybe there’s benefits to route planning. If you look at like, Ford’s design of their route planning platform, it’s a pretty nice solution to sort of helping people see and plan their, and get more confidence in their trip and sort of know where they can charge and what things they can do around that. I mean, what other kind of barriers, you know, can we turn into more benefits, like,

I mean, even energy access, for example, I mean, a lot of people have an interest in managing their energy footprint. Right? And and so can EVs help us with that?

ZOEY: 100%. electrification is kind of the new term that manufacturers are pushing today. And that’s not only electrifying your car. Buy electric, find your home. It kind of set up us like the next step in the journey. So allowing people to, not only reduce their, I guess, footprint within with your vehicle, but also with your house. They’re introducing things like, home chargers that allow you to put, energy back into your home from your vehicle as well as a home battery. sorry, home

electric water heaters or solar panels. All these new products are being offered by EV and also OEMs in order for people to take the next step in reducing, I guess, their carbon footprint. So it’s really interesting, challenge that the manufacturers are taking on to convert the barriers, the new challenges that we have today living in this world  with sustainability and green energy and pushing that with their, vehicle products. So one thing I did want to mention on your point on maintenance is that is a huge value proposition that is unique to EVs today, but it’s really interesting. The customers you talk to, they don’t really see that as a value proposition is just right with misconception around EVs are harder to maintain. They need to specialist to see the car, but it is not true. So it’s really interesting, to see how that area where the value proposition exists is not really being pushed as much.

CHRIS: It’s interesting. So there’s a big gap. So exactly. Yeah, I’ll talk about experience stress. You know the the difference between how people think the experience should be and how it actually is. You know, it’s like, can we cover that through better education or better first moments of truth in the vehicle?

KRISTIN: even transparency, because when you think about like the, one of the big topics in that the industry is weighing right now is the health of the battery. So if I hear if I want to purchase a used vehicle, for instance, how do I know, like the state of how well that that vehicle’s been taken care of and mainly the battery itself. Right. So the level of transparency across manufacturers is varied, right. Some are transparent, some are not. And so how do you how do you know, how do you purchase a used EV with confidence. And so I think that’s going to be one of the next the next steps as we talk about serviceability. And you know, the state of of used vehicles is going to be that that confidence in the battery. And I know that there are are steps being taken. You know, we’re taking some here at J.D. power as well to help to certify that battery health going forward. But but it all comes back to this element of confidence. Right. You know, is this going to make sense for me in my lifestyle? 

CHRIS: Confidence and trust. Right? I think the nature of fueling and fueling areas is going to change, right? I mean, you see a lot of, manufacturers associating themselves with like, restaurants and things like that. So you’ll be, you know, fueling while you’re doing other things in your life you want to do, like entertainment or other kinds of things. So the future of fueling can really change. And then compatibility. You mentioned that before, too. I mean, what about this, how do we get over that? because if we have a, if we have 30% of the market by a whole bunch of EVs that then can’t fuel them, then I mean, that rubber band is going to, you know, snap back in a hurry. So tell us a little bit about the future of access and fuel and how we can get on top of that.

KRISTIN: Yeah, I mean, this this infrastructure issue is critical for it for us to solve. I mean, you know, starting out with a positive for those that can charge at home very highly satisfied, right? They don’t miss the gas station. They love that it’s, you know, set it and forget it. And it’s ready to go the next day. And you know, love that convenience. So that has the potential to be a high satisfy or for those that have to rely on on public, infrastructure. Right. We, we have to solve this. And so part of that is, you know, lots of, industry announcements over the course of the last 4 or 5 months with respect to the charging standard and several of them, you know, shifting over to the North American charging standard set by Tesla, that’s a good thing with respect to, I mean, the public charging experience that Tesla owners have today is far and away superior

to any of the other public charging, experiences that that we’ve measured on a very consistent basis. Right. So the reliability of the charge rate, and just the ability like the quantity of chargers, etc., all of that is hitting the mark for consumers. a little bit, you know, I guess the other element to add there is Tesla’s adding new infrastructure at a rate. I think it’s for 4 or 5 times the rate of what other infrastructures are coming to market with. So they’re on a good pathway, a good trajectory to help, you know better meet the needs. So that’s a good thing for going forward. But we also know that with all of these manufacturers shifting over to that standard rate, you know, what’s that going to do in those first months where those vehicles are open and able to charge there? So, we have to we have to get this infrastructure item solved. It’s been our number one issue. I mean, J.D. power has been studying electric vehicles since 1997. I went back and read our first report in 1997. And it was it. It was pretty, pretty fascinating. It was very much a time warp. If you took out the models that were being studied at that time. Right. It was cost range and charging with the top three issues then. And they remained our, you know, our top issues today. So, you know, we’re at a different point. We’re certainly with the technology that we have and the capability. But it’s still it’s still remains, you know our top issue to solve and and we’ve got to get it right. And there’s not a lot of tolerance there.

CHRIS: Right. Yeah. It’s funny because we you know you can almost get tired of talking about it. You know it’s like range cost. You know, it’s like we know that those are the those are some of the key things. We can’t ignore them. I do think there’s more to it. I do think, you know, those things are going are getting solved and will get solved, but we still have to figure out how to close the gap on easy and, and sort of, and then I also think there has to be a salable value proposition beyond an Ice vehicle. It can’t just be another another way to get from point A to point B, it has to provide a superior experience. If you ask people to change their lives and and to pay more money for it.

ZOEY: I do think the manufacturers are on that train. The I think the next step is providing a seamless experience. And it’s really interesting with the introduction of more EVs into the market, they are tapping into creating a seamless experience of purchasing and also setting up their home for EVs. So as I mentioned, that Toyota and Honda, Hyundai, they’re coming up with their home, of course, white label bought their own products, home charging products that will make it easier for people to even install. They have branded installation, services to allow that to happen. And also, I believe it was Hyundai that it recently announced that people can buy their vehicles online on Amazon starting next week on sorry, next year. So people are manufacturers finding ways to make this process of getting your EV in your garage as smooth and easy as possible. And I think that’s kind of key, I guess, aspect to getting breaking down the barrier that exists today.

CHRIS: Yeah. You know, Zoey, so you said something earlier which I thought was really important. and that is understanding the use cases where EVs really provide value, like how do we how do we do that. So let’s shift a little bit to that sort of how we design and development that develop these new platforms. how do we how do we understand where the key moments of truth are in the journey? And, and those key use cases in that way, making sure that we’re always designing the technology to deliver maximum value, you know.

ZOEY: always going back to the people who are going through the experience and the journey. a lot of the times it feels as though there is a shift towards kind of guessing and hypothesizing what people their customers would want, or following the customers of other brands and then creating features for other brand customers. But you have your own customers to take care of

CHRIS: that’s following it.

ZOEY:Yeah, exactly. So I think the key is understanding your personal company’s target customers needs and use cases by talking to them, understanding their needs, and also seeing their trends and behaviors in purchasing. Not only in electric vehicle but in other products, because there is always a correlation in purchasing behaviors that way, I think there will be a better understanding around building the use cases that are actually relevant to their customers.

CHRIS: So Zoey, at Lextant we’re doing a lot more around desired experiences, in fact, that, you know, the new book, out really gets into sort of not only looking at current experiences, but understanding desired experiences through co-creation. Can you talk a little bit about that? I love the idea of, like, we’re in a war against guessing, right? Guessing is bad for business. Guessing is prone to error. Let’s not guess how do we get certainty about what people do really want?

ZOEY: For sure, we really push for this idea of the building experience around the core emotions that people want to feel, and it always lather up through the benefits. And we always talk about the value proposition and benefits today, what kind of benefits it can provide, and that there are some different features that each can provide. And through a co-creation experience, we’re able to pull out the core emotions that people are feeling in these key moments of consideration purchase as well as ownership, long term and short term. and also why they’re feeling these ways. 

CHRIS: if those are the key emotional outcomes that people seek, then how do you connect those to the functional benefits that we’re providing through EVs, and then the features we choose and which ones and how we’re going to deliver those. Right. Ultimately, in the experience, if we can connect all those dots, I think we have a chance to really make EVs stand out in a unique way, for not only the driving experience, but sort of the the life level mobility experience. you know, Kristin, what are some other ways you think that as manufacturers, tier

one suppliers, as an industry, that we can begin to really develop these platforms for success?

KRISTIN: Yeah, I mean, I’m definitely going to underscore exactly what Zoe said. I mean, it comes down to what are the unmet needs of the the customer. And I thought your point about, you know, understanding your customer in particular, not just customers in general, is really a critical aspect because, you know, each of these vehicle segments, right? There are different needs for each of those consumers. But we know that there are unmet needs, and we know that there are going to be technology and feature solutions that actually move the needle to create useful experiences for consumers. And that’s like, those are the surprise and delight. elements that are going to keep someone loyal to a brand, keep someone coming back, make them an advocate for you and your brand and start telling others about it. Right? Those are the experiences that we’re looking for, and we have to I like to your point about getting out of the guessing game, because right now I feel as if there’s quite a bit of, of technology or movement

that we’re selling that it’s going to be a fabulous feature, but it’s falling flat, right? We’re seeing we’re seeing time and time again and in our research where it’s just it’s not delivering. And so that type of lost value for the manufacturer to develop and, and take that time and the resources to develop it. And certainly for that consumer when they’ve purchased that feature and now turn it off. Right. That that doesn’t help anyone. And so we’ve  got too many instances of that. And I think we have too many tools at our disposal to avoid that situation. So I think it’s it’s the right time to take advantage and and change that equation.

CHRIS: There’s a myth out there that, you know, don’t ask consumers what they want because they can’t tell you that’s a myth. You know, you can, you can. People can be very articulate about the kind of experience they want to have. It’s our job to figure out how to deliver that experience. But they can be very articulate about the kind of experiences they want to have. So when we use those tools, then we can basically, you know, find the field and the goalposts and begin to deliver to it. Because without that we are we are just getting guessing for sure.

ZOEY: We talk about EV adoption. I think we’re at a point of sort of phase of EV adoption that’s not EVs flying off the shelf of the inventory at the moment. I think we’re going through the early, learning curve that the learning curve that you mentioned, and you also mentioned the innovation adoption curve and more have hyphenated or emphasized the chasm that exists between the early adopter and early majority. And I think we’ve fallen through that crack at the moment because there’s such a big learning curve. However, in order to cross that chasm, I think the manufacturers are doing the right thing. But asking the question what people want? through the co-creation activities. And you mentioned, very well. And they’re understanding that

what people need is the seamless experience and that electrify that’s educating them, informing them, putting the control back into their field in order to have this electrification experience. And I think we’re getting there, I can manufacturer. I have finally realized that that’s what is needed in order to get into the mainstream, market.

CHRIS: The you have the  7% that are purchasing in the US anyway, and you have the 30% that are intending or considering. It’s like, okay, how do you get from 7 to 30? And I think part of

it has to do with making sure that, we’re doing a better job experientially, because if we don’t deliver that, we won’t we won’t really turn the faucet on and get the the, you know, the adoption that we need. The good news is that, you know, every client that we’re working with and Kristin and I, I think this is probably the case with you as well. I really invest heavily in experience. And and while the technology is developing and sort of rapidly, you know, coming to market, we are trying to shape it in such a way that we’re delivering better and better experiences. So there’s a lot of good people in the industry that are working hard to make sure we’re delivering better experiences.

KRISTIN: Right. And you’re seeing even some manufacturers, you know, taking a pause or changing their production timeline as a, you know, for a multitude of reasons. But one of those reasons being the recognition, like, we’ve got to get this right, right. This product is very important to us. Right? It’s going to be, you know, this segment’s first electrified vehicle produced by us. We have to make sure it comes out and is highly successful, highly praised.

CHRIS: It’s an exciting time to be in mobility right now. You know, I think about my whole career and I’m like, man, it’s just like, you know, between the electric, autonomous, smart, connected, I mean, so much innovation happening, it’s really exciting time. And I’m really pleased that we have folks like you in the industry that are working hard to make sure we’re delivering great experiences for customers. some we’re all really passionate about. So thanks again so much for your time today and our discussion on EVs. And, you know, I think the future’s coming and you’ve given us some great ideas about how to get there. For more information on how to understand the consumer’s current and desired experiences and how to design EV experiences to differentiate and stand out in the market, visit lextant.com or JDpower.com and find out what these teams are doing to really help move the needle and create great experiences for consumers. Thanks for joining us today on a seriously Curious Like and subscribe to be notified about our upcoming episodes. up next we’ll be talking about AI powered experiences and the unique ways that we can use this technology to deliver value in completely new and unexpected ways for consumers. Thanks for joining us today.