Seriously Curious:
The Future of Experience Design and the Role of AI

Chris
Hello again, and welcome back to seriously curious, a podcast, All Things Business, strategy and Design. I’m Chris Rockwell, I’m president and founder of Lextant Human Experience firm here in Columbus, Ohio. And I’m super excited to have as our guest today, Heramb Dandekar. He’s a global design leader. Many industries, including consumer goods and automotive and future of mobility. So I’m super excited.

Today we’re going to be talking about where experience design is headed, and where its leadership is headed in large companies. And we’re also going to be talking about kind of the future of AI and smart experiences and what we’re hearing from consumers, what they want from them, and how we’re going to deliver those things. So Heramb, welcome.

Heramb
Thank you for having me. It’s a pleasure being here. And congratulations for committing to putting out a podcast every so often. I know it’s a bit of a bit of a yeah, production. So congratulations on that. I believe, you’re one of the few individuals who’ve worked across industries in this space of human centered design and really know what’s what, what’s going on, what’s to come.

So thank you. Thanks for doing this for us. Thank you for doing this for the the young individuals who are hoping to enter into this field.

Chris
Yeah, thanks. I’m glad you’re really glad that you’re here today. Hey, tell me a little bit about your journey in human centered design and experience design and specifically around leadership of these companies that you’ve been with.

Heramb
So growing up in India, in a modest, household, I was the only child. Right. So without having any siblings at home and after school, I had quite a bit of, you know, time on my hands to sort of be creative. So it became an obvious, pastime. For me is, is use my pencil and pens.

And as I grew into my teenage ages and getting closer to college, it was always clear to me that I am a creative individual and I want to do something that’s creative now. I also enjoyed electronics and how things work, so Legos, electronics, I started learning how to use a breadboard back when I was, I think 10 or 8.

So those things were always on the back of my head. But when it came to going to college, I never, I never thought I would be an engineer. Right. And back in India back then, there’s only three professions, right? There is engineer, lawyer and a doctor. Okay. That’s it. So I never thought I’d fit in any of those, areas, and, and my mother definitely knew me.

I was I wasn’t going to take a direction, from them. So she did something that I really appreciate to this day. She found out about an engineer from Mahindra, which is an auto manufacturer in India, and she set up a meeting with him at his house, just to have a chat with me. Right. And this is me when I was 16 years old.

16, 17 years old. When I went there and had a conversation about just my passion, what I like to do and what I would see myself doing in the future. He really opened my eyes when he, he mentioned that design, Heramb, is not just esthetics. It’s not just how things look, or feel when it comes to wiring.

When it comes to circuit boards, that includes design as well, right? So I’ll never forget that, that just there was that light bulb moment where, wow. And I was like, yeah, I’m all in. Let’s, let’s learn about the fundamentals of how things are built and work. So I got into engineering, I was I was amongst these geniuses in engineering.

And I was like, man, this is seems like a tough, tough crowd here. But as I, as I went on, even though I wasn’t that series and I was always messing around, I actually ended up doing really well and got a scholarship, during that time. And that gave me the confidence that, okay, I am creative, but I also I’m good at, the technology aspect of things.

Right. And mechanical engineering is pretty broad. Yeah. So it kept it didn’t really narrow it down into computer or anything, and it just kept it broadened. And that’s how I wanted it to be. And that was where I started. However, towards the end of engineering, let’s say the third year of engineering, I was sure that this is not where I want to end my education and start working.

I started exploring at options, and a couple of schools that I looked at in the US. Back then there was no user experience courses or HCI. It was it was mainly ergonomics or it was called information systems or systems engineering and things like that. So you had to dive deeper into the coursework to understand what are you learning right.

University of Michigan was my school of choice because it was in Michigan, the hub of automotive. And, automotive was always close to my heart. So I started exploring and applied for it. I got a scholarship. I also started conversations with my professors. Who I wanted to work with as a research assistant. But Vivek was the master of ergonomics and, you know, talking about how, the cars are designed, whether it’s windshields, buttons.

Yeah. You know, all of that. And there was one thing that I learned about it was called quality, function deployment, you know. Right. Voice of customer mapping that to engineering requirements. Basically, that’s the fundamental of research in the foundation of user experience. And that really got me fired up that that’s what really ignited that fire within me, where it’s like, okay, this this makes sense.

And, you know, product should be built that way. I don’t think even in the late 2000s or mid 2000, products weren’t that intuitive. Some products were designed for esthetics only, some were usability only. There wasn’t a good balance between usability and desirability back then.

Chris
Yeah, experience was kind of a new idea, really, you know. Exactly. I mean, you had some folks who were doing a type of participatory design, you know, but it was very sort of literal, and it was very systems design focused. And human factors, I thought was the closest to, you know, what became user experience. But interestingly, I don’t think the human factors community led it, which I was really surprised because I was I was always a little frustrated with human factors that like, they seem to be stuck, like, look at this huge opportunity to lead companies in this experiential space and, and collaborate with designers and collaborate, you know, with, marketing and business folks. And, and so I when I graduated and I, I sort of had to really learn a lot about design to become design sensitive. I don’t know if you found that same experience once you graduated and you got into the design world. You know, I there was a lot of skills that I lacked about what it was like to bring new designs to life, you know?

Heramb
Right. Yeah. So that’s an interesting one. So this is where I think my, passion for design, passion for art, sketching, all of that really helped me. And I was fortunate that I sort of had that in my blood because I was able to pick up the tools. Illustrator, you know, whatever the tools that, I started with back then.

So that that part really has shaped my journey because working at global matrix organizations and leading organizations, at companies like Ford and Whirlpool, is not easy. Because there’s a lot of negotiation. There is a lot of, cross-functional collaboration that’s needed. And if you really are an engineer and if you are really passionate about design, you’re able to look at things, empathize with both the groups, look at things from both point of view, and are able to make the right tradeoffs.

And that’s what it takes for a product to be profitable. And, balance that need, or balance that line between the user, desire, user need and the business objectives. Because that’s what that’s what we’re here for. That’s why we have our roles is to to balance that.

Chris
Yeah. I think that’s where that kind of systems thinking mentality, can really help individuals. Right. To not only think about that a, the specific design system, but the way it’s engineered and brought to life. You know, I don’t I think in my experience anyway, is that, universities still aren’t doing enough with, sort of collaborative design, multidisciplinary design and systems engineering.

So when I, when I teach at universities and things like that, I’m always really pushing for that cross-pollination.

Heramb
So I’ve been, you know, a thesis reviewer and advisor for CCS as well. And I’ve been going there pretty often, and that’s what I’ve been, having conversations with their leadership about is how can we get the CMF designers, the industrial designers and the product designers or others to work together? Yeah, because that’s what the industry wants.

That’s what you’re going to learn in the industry. Let’s start that early. Right? Right. Let’s get them to leverage each other and each other’s skills. And there will be healthy tension, just like there’s an industry. But you have to again, conflict resolution is an important skill to have. Right? Right. So yes.

Chris
At Lexant we talk about, you know, design it. First of all, big D design, everything’s design product process space, everything is a design problem. And we think it takes both art and science.

Heramb
Groups and teams because they have their own KPIs. Right? Of course, everybody has their perspective and their group is going to try to accentuate what they want. And it’s it’s it’s not the wrong answer because they are in those shoes for a reason. They have an expertise. They’re hired for that. But what’s critical is you have to zoom out.

You have to zoom out and look at the the business objective of this product of what makes that product successful, what makes the business case successful. And I have always told my teams and the adjacent teams that we have to think about it from the other team’s perspective. Of course, I have a strong perspective on being the users advocate, being the customer’s advocate, right?

Heramb
But not at the expense of the business objectives. Right. So there’s that balance you have to ride. And I have even been part of town halls for the engineering team, where I’m talking to the software teams and and telling them that just because we have the user experience title doesn’t mean we are the only experience designers. We are no one.

And I had a joke. I used to say, you complete us, right? Like right. We are no one without you guys bringing our, ideas to lives in our concepts life. And no one’s stopping you, the engineering team, from bringing ideas, to us either. Sure. We don’t have a stamp on the ideas. We believe everybody is creative, so let’s work together.

Chris
Yeah, I think I think when design folks get sort of insular and sort of myopically focused on design, they wind up missing opportunities to lead. A lot of the companies that we’re working with. I talk to design teams in those nine teams that are like, hey, we want to see that at the table and we can’t get it, you know?

And it’s like, well, you know, what are we doing to help them succeed? So first of all, it’s like, what things can I be doing to help the person downstream or upstream from me succeed is one thing. And I also think, you know, your point about the intersection between experience and business success is really important. Sometimes I refer to that as like Experience Value Management.

I you know, there’s no such thing as an ideal design program. You know, there are trade offs along the way. And, you know, as, as, people who are primarily, involved in the creation of experiences for customers have to do it in such a way that it can be manufactured in a cost effective way. So not every everything is equally important.

So how do we understand and help work with our, sort of R&D teams to bring things to life that are, you know, you might not get everything you want. Maybe there’s only a few key moments of truth that we really need to make sure we succeed at. And then or maybe there’s design tradeoffs we can make to make it.

And you know, less expensive to manufacture or faster to get to market. We need to be sensitive to that, because I think that’s really where we start. You know, you see companies going, oh, okay, this is how design helps us succeed in business.

Heramb
Really embracing diverse point of views. And this also means my immediate team that, you know, I’ve worked with members in North America, South America, Europe, Asia Pacific. So really learning about the cultures and the sensitivities and the different perspectives that everybody comes from. And I truly believe that really adds to the value of your team. And it really eventually produces a better outcome.

Right. So and this also applies to adjacent teams. Right. So whether it’s business, whether it’s engineering, making them part of this collective effort and even when we go on research, I’ve requested the engineering teams and the business teams to be a part of it because they can see firsthand what are those insights, instead of just looking at the report, it’s extremely and it has turned out to be extremely valuable for them.

And it helps them empathize with our perspective. Right. So it’s all about, again, working together. Yeah, right.

Chris
I used to use, business management as my pilot subjects in research. When I was evaluating things. I’d make them come down and use the new systems and they would be like, oh, this is confusing. And hard. And we’d be like, okay, you know, let’s let’s work on this together. So Heramb, tell me a little bit about, your work with Ford and Lincoln’s, 2020 model line up.

There’s some work that we kind of, worked on a little bit together, but, you had so much involvement in that.

Heramb
Yeah, that was a great experience. I think it started with, Lincoln brand. Right. So I think our engagement on the attribute model was back in 2015, I believe.

Chris
They were looking at what customers want from luxury experiences. Right?

Heramb
Yes. What Mark Duer and team. And it was it was a great way to again, it was a different it was a deeper take on quality function deployment. I think that the old school way of looking at it, from VOC to, engineering requirement, it was more about how do we want people to feel, what’s the what’s the emotion we want to evoke?

Right. I believe the I mean, it was eye opening because we did so much research. I mean, the whole idea for Lincoln was to revamp their brand wasn’t doing well. And we just we didn’t want to be followers of a different brand. We really wanted to embrace the true American luxury, and define it. So the design team, David Woodhouse and Lincoln Design did a great job of, putting some of that design ethos right together.

And I was a part of the, team that was leading the interior, physical and digital and laying out, how does that look for Lincoln’s moving forward? And that trickled into Ford as well. But laying out that roadmap for Ford Motor Company. And one of the as we did extensive research in China, because China is a big market and is a big market for Lincoln.

And a couple, eye openers were in 2016, 68% of Chinese first time, Chinese car buyers were first time car buyers. Right. They’ve never owned a car before. First time car buyers. So if you think about what their reference point is, you you basically have a clean slate. Yeah. In a way. Right. So that was an amazing and interesting discovery.

Now, of course, it’s a Lincoln. We’re going to sell it in the United States and in China. So we can’t quite start with a blank slate because you, you, you have Americans who would want to build on their, my, you know, mental models.

Chris
Sure.

Heramb
They want familiarity. So those were, you know, some key like things, discoveries that come to my mind. But there was so much more, even in terms of usage and driver distraction when we used to test them on the road in China.

Chris
It’s interesting. I mean, if any students are out there, it’s an amazing career. You really get to see so many different kinds of cultures and experiences and things like that.

Heramb
Yeah, I’m proud of the Lincoln team, even after I left, you know, the, the, the new 2024 Lincoln Navigator, the Nautilus, the interiors, the way they’ve evolved, they’ve stuck with the strategy. It’s it’s come a long way. Our goal back if you look at the 2020 model onwards was always to number one, embrace. What does it mean to be, quiet luxury or, you know, embrace American luxury, not be a follower, have your own identity.

I believe the brand did that really well. Also, back in the day, if you were to look at a Porsche or a Mercedes, or a BMW, it was a sea of buttons. I have a friend who’s whose wife wanted a Porsche Macan, but when she sat in that Porsche Macan in 2016, she was intimidated. Yeah, right. And she didn’t want to buy it.

So we wanted to do exactly the opposite is we want people to feel invited. We want them to feel comfortable. But one of the, words was sanctuary. We want this to feel like a sanctuary. So how can we offer the same functionality, the same features, the same niceties and creature comforts? But but provide that balance between physical and digital.

Chris
You mentioned was sort of the sea of buttons. Usually you sea of buttons. It’s a sensory cue to people of complexity. It’s also a sensory cue, to highly featured in powerful. Yeah. So it’s like, how do you balance that? You want you bought a luxury vehicle. You want it to be capable, but then you don’t want it to be confusing and or intimidating.

Right. Because the whole idea is you have this luxury experience. You want it to work for. You want it to be smart. Like when I’m stuck, you know, help get me unstuck. But don’t make me know the about the mechanical properties of traction control to do it, you know.

Heramb
Right. And now we’ve come to a point where these things can be more, predictive. Right. So back in the day, it was about showing you a prompt. I think we can extrapolate it to today where just get me unstuck like, don’t even tell me what you’re doing. Just do it for me.

Chris
Exactly right.

Heramb
But I agree with you, back in the day, and I’m not. I’m just talking, you know, late 20 teens buttons meant luxury, buttons meant features. You’ve got you paid for all this, and that’s why you have those buttons. And if you didn’t, you you would have blanks, which was like another way, right? You know, as Lincoln, we were like, we don’t want blank.

Chris
No. Yeah.

Heramb
And that’s why we standardize the screens. We got into a, a strategy where you have, one screen which actually ended up being better from a, economies of scale standpoint. And so we don’t have, like, multiple screens to manage. But yeah, the goal was how do you make them feel comfortable? How do you make them feel safe and things are predictable while giving them the right features and the right creature comforts. Yeah.

Chris
Let’s go back a little bit to, sort of the the experience idea or the, the design leadership aspect of that in large businesses today has been some things, that have been written recently that, you know, like design and experience leaders had their shot and it didn’t work. You know, during Covid, there was a huge build up of experienced professionals.

You know, for me, it was like, wow. You know, finally everybody realizes how important this is and they’re hiring armies of people. It wasn’t necessarily good for my business as a consultant, you know, but, huge, you know, staff of, of UXers. And then now just sort of four years later, a lot of those, UXers have now lost their jobs.

So, like, what happened in all that, you know, like.

Heramb
I want to say from early 2000 to 2020, of course, everybody realized the importance of human centered design research, user experience because there was a big shift, right? It went from utility to desirability. And then there were delighters and wow factors that had to be added to separate yourself from your competitors. And then it was, well, that’s not enough.

We’ve got to separate in a more meaningful way. Right. So how can we, look at doing that? And there were some great examples that came out of it, like at Ford. You know, the F-150’s shifter stowing down, and you can slide your center armrest to have a work surface. But knowing that our contractors and professionals don’t use your trucks just as a vehicle, they use it as an office, as a dining table, you know, that helps them.

Also, in Europe we have, a E Tourneo van where the steering wheel articulates to become a circular tray table. Right. So great ideas came out of it. You know, of course, companies were flush with cash. Right. During that time and it was more investment, more funding available, and some of these teams ballooned out of proportion. If you do your job as a great UX professional, working again closely with other, team members, business and engineering specifically, and industrial design, you don’t need that many people.

The awareness around human centered design, design thinking, user experience, processes has grown. And I think everybody believes in those processes, those methodologies. The question is. Why can’t software designers? Why can’t industrial designers also learn and start practicing UX? Right. And to me, that seems like the logical thing I think everybody should learn about what these methodologies are and how design thinking is done, and that adds value to the collective, group.

Right. And that’s how you’re going to be more efficient. Of course, then you think about AI, where if you are in an established industry, let’s just take websites and apps, for example, or even automotive AI can help you start not at zero. So you don’t have to start your research initiatives and your concepting at at the bottom, because I can get you to maybe 30% right now.

Right? You can start, you can get a leg up because there are enough established stereotypes, enough knowledge that you can start at a higher level playing field. Right. And you have that knowledge also from your own experience, your company’s experience. But I can help you there. However, it doesn’t replace research you still have to work with, the research firms such as yourselves in some industries where you you need that physical interaction, you need the physical testing to really validate because it’s high stakes.

Automotive, aerospace. Also automation.

Chris
Medical. Yeah. I mean, you name it, you know.

Heramb
Yeah. So it’s I think that that piece is critical to understand.

Chris
For me, the big opportunity for designers and experienced professionals and design research professionals is to lead that, to get in in a multidisciplinary room and and to lead that process, because not everybody has the skills of an industrial designer or a UX designer. IT folks, for example, are sensitive to how you know what a good construct is for navigation or feedback or whatever.

They’re they even have tools now that can help make some of this for them automatically. Like you say in the AI space, right? But it doesn’t replace I don’t think it it replaces UX or design. It’s really a matter of like you say, we can’t get out, that we can’t be out there on our high horse going experience is important.

And, you know, I can’t believe you’re not doing everything. You know, you’re not taking every idea. We have to be part of that multidisciplinary solution. Yeah.

Heramb
Companies are also swinging from one side of the pendulum to the other. Right. Because you see the the value that AI provides. And you’re extrapolating what that means to your headcount, potentially. And you have the economic downturn looming over your head. Right? So you’re putting these pieces together. So it’s better to have a low head guard than high headcount and work on incremental innovation, then groundbreaking innovation, then have that liability.

Heramb
Right. So you’re looking at it from a business standpoint. Now I feel like longer term the UX field is going to continue to flourish. This is a dip. If you were to look at a you know, a curve. This is a dip in the in the progression. But it will continue to flourish for individuals that are truly truly passionate about user experience didn’t just join the field because it pays well and they’re actually through and through, product designers user experience. And they’re keeping up with the new tools, the new, you know, advancements that are happening with AI and most importantly, are great at communication, great at collaboration and conflict resolution. Right? Right. This is where the even if you look at AI right now, it’s very technology.

First, it’s very it’s very, you know, neural Engine first, it’s data science first. Right. Even tools like Midjourney and ChatGPT could have better UIs, and that’s that’s around the corner. Right. So I believe the AI, world is going to create more opportunities for the right UXers who are doing the right work and we’re really upskilling themselves. Yeah.

Chris
AI for me, and I think where I’m seeing the emergence of AI is really as a, an accelerant, as, a collaborator, as, like a copilot with, you know, so it’s in the experiences we’re creating, but also the internally, you know, for our, you know, for our design teams and things like that. It has to be a collaborative.

But what it does is it takes make work. It takes the the nonproductive time and handles that so that we can focus on more strategic and important things, like how do we translate insights to business strategy and design, how do we create product roadmaps? You know, those are the things I think that, business leaders look to the design team and they’re saying, you know, help me activate the things that that you’re doing.

You know, because it’s good work. How do we activate it? And then you’ve got that nature of the CXO, whose job it is, is to align the business, you know, closely with the needs of the market and what consumers will adopt and use well then that’s how you gain customers and you keep them for life, is you break down the gaps between what the business is doing and what the market and the customer needs.

And that means we have to evolve, right? I mean, the work that we do, like in like any of us, we have to evolve and get better. And so we’ve talked a little bit today about some of the things that can help us, get better. And I think the future I see, the future is very bright for people who are in design, UX, in the research profession, that the need for that does not go away.

It’s a matter of whether or not we can really step in and seize the opportunity.

Heramb
One of the things I’m curious about is with your exposure to multiple industries that you’ve worked with, which industry do you think has advanced the most in the last ten years?

Chris
It’s interesting, if you were to ask which industries are succeeding most at some of this experience or stuff that’s different than who’s made the most progress? Honestly, the work that, you know, the experiences we’ve had in the automotive space, automotive has come a long way. You know, when you see how far, when I first started working on on this design, each of my teams were really small, you know, they didn’t have a lot of, input or purchase in the process.

And design teams, you know, especially those working on exterior design where we had a lot of power within the automotive organizations. But it was very, kind of design focused. It was like, you know, bring in the most famous design person we can to like, you know, use clay and make things. So the automotive industry for me has come a really long way in terms of how they think about design.

It’s it’s much more than just human factors. It’s they’re we’re talking about the emotional needs of folks. We’re talking about sort of like life level mobility and ecosystems of experience and stuff, you know, so that industry has come a long way. There’s a lot it needs to do, you know, because it’s still behind. It’s been late to the game.

When you think about like what financial services, for example, would be an industry that I think has come a pretty long way or, you know, they’ve they’ve been sort of on the cutting edge of a lot of this stuff. It doesn’t mean that they’ve made money any less confusing, you know, because it’s still confusing to figure out how to navigate some of those waters for consumers.

You know, when you think about. So the thing about the financial industry is a it’s highly emotional. So people, you know, money is emotional for people. And, it’s also highly complex when you think about like, well, a 30 year mortgage at x percent is, is that good? And, you know, what’s escrow? You know, like there’s a lot of this stuff.

And in insurance it’s even worse. It’s like, well, do I need a million dollars of comprehensive or 10 million or 100 million? I have no idea what’s comprehensive, you know? So it’s like there’s this complexity around it and it’s highly emotional because its about protecting all your stuff. But the finance and, and insurance industries have, have, have noted that and have tried to really focus early on experience centricity.

And so I think they’ve done a pretty good job in that space. The automotive has probably come the furthest in the last ten years, but they’re still, you know, behind they’re still getting there. So it’s it’s, it’s a mixed bag, I think, you know, but, I think across the board industries have acknowledged that this is an important construct for businesses to succeed.

I had an moment, so like ten years ago, but I was working with, commercial like, industrial kind of company. And, you know, these guys make fluids and variable speed motors and things like that. And at the very top, the president’s like, human experience is going to be the key to our future. And I was like, we we’ve made, you know, we’ve arrived to like, when, you know, you’re making fluids, you know, and they’re saying human centered design is important.

You know, I was like, okay, you know, maybe, you know, maybe we are making a little bit of traction. So anyway, I don’t that’s a long answer to your question. What do you think?

Heramb
It’s great. What do you think? Automotive. I feel like could have gone a long way. I think they were distracted by a couple things. And, you know, not not blaming automotive for it. I mean, there’s autonomous driving, you know, back in the 20 teens, then there was, you know, most companies started looking at advanced driver assistance systems as the way to slowly get there.

But really, a few companies stayed on the path of autonomous, fully autonomous. Then it was SDV, and it is, software defined vehicle, and that’s the that’s the future. So there’s a lot of companies that are traditional automakers that are struggling to change the culture from within to really think in this new way. Also, from a business standpoint, be able to justify that all the way from your $20,000 car to your $120,000 car.

Right? And in Ford’s, situation. And then there’s EVs, right? Electric vehicles and, being there, competing with the top Teslas and BYD’s of the world. So that has really taken away from the focus of how can you use a controlled environment? Yeah, that has lighting, displays, haptics, olfactory, sound, all of these stimuli and levers to potentially put the occupants in the desired mental state?

Yeah, there’s a lot automotive could do. And there’s some things that some automakers are getting at, but we could have done a lot more, given the processing capability you have in cars these days. But there’s these distractions that have been keeping us from getting there.

Chris
It’s kind of a return to technology centricity. That’s been my like, the, like a little voice in the back of my head is like, you know, we spent all this time shifting from a tech centric approach to bringing products to market to an experience centric approach. Like we were really making traction. And in the last ten years, I would say, all of a sudden it started becoming about the technology again.

Oh, LIDAR. You know, we’ve got LIDAR. Let’s use LIDAR, you know, or I would have companies come to us and say, we’re going to do AI like, what does that mean? Like, you know, let’s talk about what’s the value proposition, what are the capabilities and attributes of AI that can help us create better experience? Because ultimately that’s the end. The end is, you know, how do we add value really, when it comes down to it, is every decision that we make in a company either adds value to the customer or doesn’t, and if it doesn’t add value, we’re not in business. You know, we’re we’re not competing. So I’ve sort of shifted from this, I don’t know, like an experience centric language to more of a value centric.

Yeah. There has been a shift towards technology centricity with the connected, autonomous, smart, electrified kind of thing that’s been going on in automotive. The reason I say they’ve come some way is because when I first started working with automotive, I don’t they couldn’t spell experience, you know, I mean they you know what I mean. They so they’re much more aware of it now whether or not they’ve built organizations that can activate it.

I think they’re really trying you see, you know, teams now at CX level, you see, product and service design level and there’s a lot of skill acquisition going on. And I’m, I’m, you know, proud of Lextant’s work in that space to help companies. They’ve got and that’s what I mean by and you’ve rightly brought out that there’s a long way to go yet.

We’re not we’re we’re still not really thinking about, the experience around the thing. We’re still talking about the thing.

Heramb
That comes to the top jobs, you know, chief AI officer or or the VP of AI. Those don’t have to be computer engineers or coders or data scientists. They need to be someone, like a CXO or a UX individual, a leader who’s led teams that can understand how to connect the dots and generate value. And how do we use this technology and the, call it AI or call it any other technology to your advantage.

Right. And there’s a lot of industries where this individual could really play a good value if they understand how to work collaboratively and bring. Yeah, all that together.

Chris
I think it’s interesting. We treat AI like it’s like it’s of a different technology tool. You know what I mean? It’s it is another technology. It is another thing in the bag that we can use. I mean, you know, there’s AI and there’s hamburger menus. Well we got to know how to design both of those things so that people can actually use them.

And it’s like, to me, I’m, I’m way more about like, what are the attributes of AI that can help us deliver better experiences? You know, AI is amazing at, predicting. It’s amazing at creating knowledge. It’s amazing at personalization. Okay, well, now how do I take those things and craft better experiences? Because that’s ultimately because I don’t, you know, one of the things I’m hearing too is, well, we’ll put on the side of the vehicle, you know, powered by AI.

And it’s like, okay, well, that’s interesting to consumers. It might be scary to consumers, but that but ultimately that’s not what it’s about when they’re in the vehicle and it anticipates a need or does something they think is smart, they don’t necessarily need to go, oh, that’s the AI, isn’t it? You know, no, it’s the people, the company that put together this thing, the brand that brought you this experience.

So I the fact that it’s AI, I don’t know if consumers care as long as they’re having the experience they want to have.

Heramb
Oh it’s very interesting you say that because there’s companies that are misusing the term. It could be a simple algorithm. And they’re calling it. AI. Right. Yeah. And on the other hand, there’s really good work happening with AI. When it comes to prosthetics and medical technology and chemistry, there’s a lot of and that AI is going to extremely accelerate.

Let’s take battery technology, for example, or even, drugs. It’s going to accelerate that research and bring solutions that we would have probably taken 100 years. Yes, in a matter of years. Right. So that’s going to really be important. I think, when when we talk about AI, what comes to mind is Metcalfe’s Law, right. The network effect. Okay, great.

But I was like Metcalf’s law on steroids because you have the network effect, but the network of users are also teaching it. Right.

Chris
Exactly.

Heramb
Pushing it. So it’s going to it’s it’s going to, you know, definitely grow at an exponential rate. No doubt about that. Yeah. But the the point is how do you use this technology in a meaningful way. And that’s where a lot of, you know, consultations that I’m having are all about that. You know, some leaders are running after the technology and asking, you know, someone like you or me, how do I use AI? How do I do? I right, and some others are asking about, okay, these are the problems I’m facing. How do I solve it? And that’s the right approach is look at the issues that you have. And sometimes they may be symptoms that we have to drill down to the root causes and then understand what tool, what solution.

What technology. Yeah. Can better address that.

Chris
Yeah. You know, I think about, so we’ve done research for years on smart fill in the blank. You know, companies have come to this and say, well, we’re trying to make a smart appliance or a smart toaster or whatever, you know, and so, when I think about all of the, the things that consumers need or desire from smart and what smart looks like, they use consistent words like, confidence.

I’m confident using it, I trust it, it’s personalized for me. It anticipates me. It seems to know me. It’s uncanny. You know, it’s like those are things that are smart experiences. And I think those are the things we need to think about when it comes to the consumer side of AI is like, how do we design experiences that give you the emotional and functional benefits of that?

Any final thoughts on recommendations for business leaders, or UX, UX practitioners today? Any kind of like any final thought of something that you think could help them today that we haven’t talked about.

Heramb
For UX leaders, and practitioners, I would say you are more than a UX leader. You’re more than a UX practitioner. You have to think business. You have to think value centricity. Working in collaboration with your business partners and your engineering partners is extremely, extremely critical in today’s world. And that’s what’s going to set you up for success.

Chris
Same question, but for students, young folks who are coming up, what what would you recommend they be thinking about when they think about a career? And, this experience profession.

Heramb
For students, I would say, the days of specialization and just UI design or visual and motion design research only interaction architecture or UX design only human factors and ergonomics and, accessibility. Those days are gone. You have to be a well-rounded UX designer. That means a couple things. One is it’s not digital only. You have to understand physical spaces and digital interfaces, both doesn’t matter your industry, or it doesn’t matter the goal, you have of entering a certain industry.

I would I would encourage, highly encourage because we all, as humans live in a physical world. Whether you’re on the phone or on a laptop, you’re still in the physical world. It always connects. So be a well-rounded UXer. Learn, because these days it’s easier. You have a lot of tools at your fingertips, so you should be able to learn about all these facets of user experience or human centered design.

You may still have an inclination towards one or the other, and that’s okay. I would also encourage industrial design, CMF, graphic design, and even engineers to get into UX and learn about UX because that is one way to upskill yourself, but also think about it from a UXer standpoint and vice versa.

Chris
Yeah, I totally agree with you. And I don’t think it’s that, you know, we have to like, have every skill that’s not realistic. But, you know, for me, it’s like take every opportunity to work with people who are not like you, you know, to work with engineers and to work with marketing people. And that because it’s going to give you a great perspective about how what you do connects in that ecosystem so that you can help them succeed.

I really believe, you know, the way to succeed as a professional is to help others succeed, and you can become kind of a trusted collaborator when you build your collaboration skills. And, I think you’ll find that you’re in the front of the room with a, you know, a marker more often than you realize. And that’s a good thing. That’s a good place to be.

Heramb
Advice to every professional out there is don’t, avoid conflict. And you could, through collaboration, of course, there’s going to be healthy tension. Yeah. And that’s okay. That’s going to make the collaboration stronger. It’s going to bring you closer to your, stakeholders. And I can talk from personal experience, when you are approaching the problem and the conflict from a point of view of our goal is to make the product or the service that we’re working on better.

There’s no personal aspect to it. It always drives progress.

Chris
And sure. And everybody and that’s something I think that everybody shares. Right. Everybody’s trying to make the experience better. So that’s a place where we can align for sure. Heramb, thanks so much for being with us today. It’s been amazing. I’ve really enjoyed our conversation. So catch Heramb wherever he’s at. Definitely reach out to him and continue the conversation.

I want to thank everybody for joining us today. As Heramb mentioned, if you’d like to get Ahold of him, LinkedIn and his company’s website is what again, it’s.

Heramb
Going to be plambosolutions.com

Chris
Okay, great. So, reach out and continue the conversation there. Thanks for joining us on Seriously Curious. Stay tuned for future episodes. We’ve got a lot of great stuff. We’re going be talking about the future of health care. We’re going to talk some more about the future of mobility and public transit. All, all different kinds of aspects coming up.

We’ll continue this conversation on AI because we know it’s driving a lot of what’s happening. So everything on Seriously Curious again, a podcast, all things business strategy and design. Thanks for being here and we look forward to seeing you soon.